Mike Johnston's BBQ chase

Via Twitter, I learned of Mike Johnston, founder of Savory Spice Shop, who went on a serious BBQ trek. I reached out. Below is our Q&A. Mike is on the right. More pics to come.

Q: What prompted this? 

In late 2014, as we were developing our Savory Spice marketing plan for 2016, we had the idea that we wanted to do an American barbecue road trip that featured all the different regions of barbecue. Barbecue blends sell incredibly well at our shops and we have blends that we have created around the typical flavor profiles found in North Carolina, Memphis, Texas and Kansas City regional barbecue. Doing this barbecue chase would give me firsthand knowledge that we can share with all of our customers and possible develop more. I’ve done other smaller scale trips to areas to learn about a particular blend or spice, and our customers really seemed to like hearing about them. I think it just legitimizes us and our knowledge about spice. Here are a couple other examples of trips I’ve taken: http://www.savoryspiceshop.com/blog/gather-round-the-table/the-pursuit-of-bajan-22.html & http://www.savoryspiceshop.com/blog/gather-round-the-table/the-quest-for-authentic-jamaican-jerk-67.html However, the timing of the release (or at least my knowledge of it) Johnny Fugitt’s book, The 100 Best Barbecue Restaurants in America, definitely was part of the inspiration of chasing barbecue. It inspired me to think big in terms of the amount of places I’d try to hit. He and I have since communicated via email and although we won’t meet up during the trip we plan to get together afterwards to discuss. And I’m very much looking forward to that conversation! I know we will have a lot to discuss…and debate!  

Q: How much time is this taking? 

I’m going to be out chasing BBQ for 38 days. The original goal was to hit 76 spots, but that number seems to be rising. In Texas alone (my first leg of the trip), ended up going to 33 barbecue joints, up from the 27 that were planned. If my math is right, that is a 22% increase. If I keep up that pace I’ll end up going to 93 joints in 38 days. The amount of days out will not likely change though…my wife wants me back in Denver on 9/25…happy wife, happy life! That said, she has been so cool to let me do this trip and supportive all the way through. In fact, she is joining me today for the part of the Memphis leg. 

Q: Is it worth the expense?

I think so. I’m doing my best to keep the costs down by pulling around my Casita trailer and sleeping in it. More times then not, even though I’m offering to pay and expect to pay, these barbecue business owners are giving me food and swag. I think they recognize that we can both benefit from this experience. Paying or not, I’m think when you can get in front of pitmasters and others that make barbecue their business there is information that you can glean that is priceless. 

Q: Have you always been interested in Texas BBQ? 

Not being from Texas, I can’t say I grew up on Texas style barbecue. However, when we opened our first shop in Austin a few years back, my eyes were opened to brisket and beef ribs…and sausage smoked right! I’ve done smaller crawls of Austin when I’ve visited in the past, but hadn’t been to legendary spots like Lockhart, Taylor and Lexington. Even Austin has changed tremendously, of the 10 planned stops there, I hadn’t been to 9 of them…I think many of them have opened since I last visited. I don’t want to forget about Pecos, San Antonio, San Marcos, Houston, Tyler, Longview and the Dallas area. These were all first time visits for me… and each amazing in their own way. 

Q: Do you smoke meat at home? 

I do a little, but nowhere near the quality and level of what is going on in Texas. That said, with my new friends at Pitmaker I see a new smoker in my future. While I’m gathering knowledge for my customers, I’m going to be using it at my home. Lance Kirkpatrick, the pitmaster at Stiles Switch was very generous with his time and just from what I learned in that visit alone I believe I’ll be 10 times the barbecuer when I get back to Denver. 

Q: What’s your favorite Texas BBQ menu item? 

I like brisket and the beef rib, but if you put a gun to my head and said pick I’d go with the unbelievable sausages that are smoked here. I give extra credit to the joints that make it in-house; there really is a big difference to the final outcome. 

Q: What have you learned? 

I’ve learned a lot, but I’m going to reserve most of that for our promo next year, but here is an interesting story that Daniel Vaughn, food editor and critic for Texas Monthly shared with me… One of my employees, Sam, has been following my journey and asked me to find out why there are pickles, raw onion and bread on pretty much plate. Back in the day, meat markets would bring in fresh meat each week, process it and sell it throughout the week. Whatever was left over at the end of day Friday they needed to get rid of somehow, so many of them smoked it. Saturdays end up being barbecue days. But these folks weren’t restaurateurs, they were butchers and market owners, they didn’t have sides to go along with the cue, so they added items to the plate that were already available for sale on the their shelves. Market staples like pickles, onions, bread, cheese, hot sauce and even avocados (I haven’t tried this but Daniel and his friend David both say they’re amazing together, but just aren’t offered enough theses days). Since they weren’t offering up potato salad, mac and cheese back then, those items, Sam, became traditional barbecue sides and in Texas that tradition, along with many others in barbecue, remains the same. It’s just a happy coincidence that they taste great together! 

Q: Any highlights (and/or lowlights)? 

Sorry I have no real lowlights...I guess some might say being yelled at by Jon Mueller, but I wouldn’t call it one because in the end I got him to smile for the camera! Highlights are many…too many to list, but I’d say the experiences that stick out are…my first top in Texas at Pody’s and not knowing that Israel, the owner was also on in law enforcement... he scared the crap out of me and then let me off the hook…the prefect way to start my trip….meeting Big Ern Servantes and having him take me on a cool side trip to Hay’s BBQ (great sausage donuts there), my visit to Stiles Switch…every single person working there (and mind you I dropped by during there busy lunch hour with two friends) was super welcoming and Lance just made it so memorable, doing a two stop lunch interview with Daniel Vaughn (I learned more about the history of Texas barbecue in that visit), finding Bet the House (thanks to Lance) and meeting the trio of pitmasters (Jess, Cody and Shawn) and the rest of the team there, meeting legendary pitmasters Roy Perez of Kruez’s BBQ and Toostie of Snows.I could go on, because there were highlights after highlights and I feel bad not mentioning everyone, because honestly, in those short visits I feel like a made new friends and I want to support them all. 

Q: Any surprises?  

Just how welcoming everyone has been to me. There was only one spot where I felt unwelcomed…I won’t name names. So 99.9% of the people…in some way, shape or form….made me feel good about stopping there and talking with them. And many helped open more doors for me. Honestly, I was a bit “scared” of going in a trying to talk with these Texas barbecue folks…figured I might get a…”beat it Northern”, but nothing could be farther from the truth. Texas welcomed me, gave me confidence to talk and learn and made me feel like family. Every other region I go to will have their work cut out for them to match my Texas experience. I thank them all.

Q & A with Daniel "BBQ Snob" Vaughn

For a while now, I've wanted to put together a Q&A with my friend Daniel "BBQ Snob" Vaughn. I finally took the time to come up with some questions, and Daniel was gracious enough to spend even more time answering them (But don't think I don't notice the thinly-veiled shot at me for my love affair with half chickens at BBQ joints.). I've known for almost two years, but I knew of him and his immensely popular BBQ blog, Full Custom Gospel BBQ, long before I met him. I started my blog not too long after he started his. Whereas I've pretty much stopped reviewing/rating BBQ joints, Daniel is going as strong as ever and remains the go-to source for Texas BBQ critiquing. I would love to know if anyone has eaten at more Texas BBQ joints than he. My guess is "no." It's been great to follow his body of work, and I'm delighted that he shows no signs of stopping. He's an invaluable asset to the institution of Texas BBQ and, at least within Texas BBQ circles, pretty much a rock star. To all his fans & groupies: No, I will not give out his cell phone number. Here's our conversation (answers from July 10):

Hometown - Wooster, Ohio

Occupation - Architect

Why did you start your blog? My friend Sam and I made a pilgrimage to Central Texas to eat at some of the best joints in Texas using the Texas Monthly Top 50 as our guide. I wanted to remember it all so I took a bunch of photos and recorded tasting notes at each one. When I got back home I needed an outlet for the information I'd collected, so eventually that became a BBQ blog.

How many Texas BBQ joints have you patronized? 375 to date.

How many miles have you covered for the blog? I haven't tried to tally it, but I assume it would be depressing given the price of gas.

What are some of the things you have learned about Texas BBQ during your outings? Most of them are closed on Sunday, don't serve beer, and have few menu items. They don't like websites, and their hours, even when posted, are usually unreliable.

What are your favorite menu items? Sliced brisket, with a few burnt end cuts

What are your least favorite menu items? If you're talking meat, I'd say that I rarely bother to order chicken. It's just barely BBQ anyway.

How often do you use sauce on your proteins? When I'm eating for fun, which isn't often. I love BBQ sauce, I just don't judge BBQ based on the sauce. I like it on the side for dipping bread into it. That's how I prefer to taste a joint's sauce.

How long do you wait after a meal to decide on its star rating? I usually record some notes immediately afterward and throw in my first impression right then.

What are your favorite side items? Fried okra and any soul food items. I get sick of slaw, beans and potato salad.

What's the best dessert you've had? Banana pudding is the State dessert as far as I'm concerned, and the banana pudding at Pecan Lodge in Dallas is phenomenal. It's so good that they run out pretty quickly.

What's your drink of choice when you eat BBQ? Dr. Pepper, but I switch to iced tea after my first joint if I'm in for a long day.

Which Texas BBQ joint have you patronized the most? I live in Dallas, so there are a few joints around town that I've made plenty of repeat visits to, but it's probably a toss up between Mac's and Peggy Sue. Peggy Sue was the first joint I ate at in Dallas the first week I moved here, and I started going to Mac's shortly after. Newer joints like Lockhart Smokehouse and Pecan Lodge both get plenty of business from me these days as well.

What's your least favorite thing about BBQ blogging? Setting up my reviews. It takes forever just to search for addresses and hours and to get it all formatted and upload photos. It's a beating because I can write the review in about as much time as it takes to format it.

What are your plans for the blog? What's to come? I plan to keep eating. As a new correspondent with Texas Monthly, I've got plenty of eating to do to keep adding content to the new Texas Monthly BBQ app.

What are your top picks for Texas BBQ in 2011? Pecan Lodge and Lockhart Smokehouse locally. Across the state, Franklin BBQ in Austin, Louie Mueller Barbecue in Taylor, Black's in Lockhart

What joints have you not been to that are high on your hit list? Vera's in Brownsville, Riverport BBQ in Jefferson, Gatlin's in Houston, Mustang Creek BBQ in Louise and I've tried to visit Ruthie's in Navasota twice with no luck.

What type of pork ribs do you prefer? St. Louis cut.

Beef ribs or pork ribs? There are some great beef short ribs out there, but I just love pork ribs too much to have them play second fiddle.

Beef sausage or pork sausage? Beef and pork mixture.

How many times have you ordered chicken? Turkey? I order turkey much more often, and most of the time my wife is along for the ride. She's not a fan of most BBQ items.

How often do people recognize you when you go to a BBQ joint? I've only been recongnized once on a first visit to my knowledge, and that was by Big Jim at Hashknife on the Chisholm in Peadenville, which is still my favorite name for any BBQ joint.

What's the highest # of joints you've hit in 1 day? 1 weekend? I've done 10 in a day twice and 16 in a weekend once.

How many pounds of brisket do you eat in an average week? It varies widely based on whether there's a multi-joint road trip involved, but I rarely go a week without eating at least a pound.

What's your favorite rotisserie BBQ? I love Brazilian churrascaria.

Your wife is a vegetarian. What does she think about your meat endeavors? She's not quite a vegetarian, but she prefers poultry that doesn't have a smoky flavor. She's incredibly supportive and very accommodating. I've called her a saint many times, even when she's out of ear-shot.

What's the oddest BBQ item you've eaten? Hog wings at Cripple Creek BBQ in Athens. They are smoked portions of a hog shank.

What factors go into your BBQ ratings? It's all about the meat, especially brisket and ribs. Sides, service and ambiance only come into play if the joint is sitting between stars.

When you order brisket, do you request a certain cut more than others? Only if they ask. I seek the same experience that any other customer would get so that users of the site know what to expect.

How often do you order BBQ sandwiches? What's your favorite? I only order sandwiches if they don't offer meat by the pound. It's usually the cheapest way to get a sample of brisket and ribs.

If you could only have BBQ from one city/town, which one would it be? Austin, Texas. I could eat Franklin brisket any and every day of the week. Then I could hit Lambert's or Ruby's when Franklin is closed. I'm guessing John Mueller's new place will bring something positive to the mix as well.

What's the best BBQ you've eaten outside of Texas? Smoque BBQ in Chicago. It's the only place I've had exemplary smoked brisket outside of Texas.

Q&A with Kerry "Snowman" Bexley (Owner, Snow's BBQ, Lexington, Texas)

As we’re making an early-morning trip to Snow’s BBQ in Lexington today, it’s an appropriate time to post a Q&A with Snow’s owner, Kerry “Snowman” Bexley. Kerry was a fantastic host the first time we visited Snow’s, and we’re looking forward to seeing him again today. Enjoy!

Man Up: How hot is the fire?
Snowman: For our brisket’s which are cooked on in-direct heat I like to keep the temperature around 250–300 deg F.

Man Up: How long does each item stay on the pit?
Snowman: Briskets cook for about 8-10 hrs, pork, chickens, and ribs are cooked over a bed of coals (direct heat) for approx 6-8 hrs.

Man Up: How long do you marinate each?
Snowman: We do not marinate at all, we only use a dry rub that is put on 18-24 hrs prior to cooking.

Man Up: What is your favorite part of working for Snow’s?
Snowman: I guess being the owner the best thing is seeing everyone making their trip to Snow’s a GREAT experience.

Man Up: What is your least favorite part of working for Snow’s?
Snowman: Again being the owner I have no FREE Saturdays and I’m always stressed to be sure all goes as planned.

Man Up: How long do you plan to work for Snow’s?
Snowman: I truly hope that we can continue to please customers for years to come.

Man Up: If you weren’t grilling on Saturdays what would you be doing?
Snowman: It’s been so long I’m not sure. Spending more time with my family and getting in the bed every now and then on a Friday night.

Man Up: How did you learn to grill?
Snowman: I used to just think I could cook and then I learned a lot from Ms. Tootsie and then tried to perfect what she taught me.

Man Up: What is your favorite BBQ item?
Snowman: Definitely the brisket, I take great pride in the quality of brisket we have.

Man Up: In June 2008, Snow’s was named the top BBQ joint in Texas. What is the reaction to the publicity Snow’s has gotten?
Snowman: One thing I have always strived for is success and when I made the decision to open Snow’s I wanted for everything to be the best it could be and when we got the recognition it was great. Yes it has made everyone’s job more demanding, but it is the challenge that I like. I love to meet new people and this has really opened the door for me to meet people from all over the world.

Q&A with Republic of Barbecue

Q&A with Republic of Barbecue (Elizabeth, Lisa, Andrew, Gavin, an Eric)
October 19, 2009
House Park Bar-B-Que, Austin, Texas

Man Up: Why this project?
Republic of Barbecue: The Central Texas BBQ Association wanted some Texas BBQ oral histories, so we decided to conduct interviews for a case study in an American studies class. Over the course of the spring semester, we conducted 7 interviews, but we realized we had just scratched the surface. So, we decided to continue the project, conducting 20 more interviews throughout the summer and fall. At a certain point, we had a long soul-searching and decided we should do more than just transcribe the interviews. We wanted to do something that would be accessible and interesting to the whole community—and that's where the idea of the book came about.

Man Up: Any moments stand out?
Republic of Barbecue (Lisa): Every interview had its stand-out moments, but the tour of Smokey Denmark Sausage Co. totally de-mystified the sausage-making process. Some people would be less inclined to eat sausage, after seeing how sausage is made, but it definitely actually made me more inclined to eat sausage!

Man Up: Undoubtedly, you learned a great deal about BBQ itself, but what did the project teach you about the culture of Texas BBQ?
Republic of Barbecue: Oh, yeah. The interviews taught us so much about Texas. We found that BBQ is truly a tri-ethnic institution, with deep roots in the Caucasian, African American, and Latino communities. BBQ is something that is woven throughout the fabric of Texas. Whether or not you eat BBQ, it’s a part of your life. BBQ restaurants and distribution chains are crucial to the health of local economies, and BBQ joints are often what keep some small Texas towns on the map. The project also revealed to us how central the railroads are to the cultures and economies of this part of the state.

Man Up: Do you like BBQ more or less now?
Republic of Barbecue: More! Andrew bought a smoker and has been trying his luck with it in his backyard with chicken, ribs, and pork butt. Lisa went back to her home state of Kentucky and conducted a series of interviews with BBQ purveyors.

Man Up: What are the plans for the rollout of the book, and what’s next for Republic of Barbecue?
Republic of Barbecue: We have a number of planned events and events in the works—with the Texas Book Festival, the Texas Folklife Center, Book People, and others. We’ll be at the 1st annual “BBQ Bowl” (the Lockhart High v. Elgin High football game) tomorrow night (Oct. 24) at Elgin High School. We’ve got events coming up in New York and Washington, D.C., and we’re launching the book on Thursday, October 22, at 6:00 p.m. at Central Market North. A portion of the book’s proceeds will go toward a fund for research for future graduate students. We’re so excited about the launch and the coming weeks, to hear feedback and hear other people’s stories. We think that, after hearing from people, we’ll have a better sense of what we missed and what we need to do next.

Man Up: Anything you want to add?
Republic of Barbecue (Andrew): Just that we felt responsible for the stories we were going to tell. We wanted to make sure that we presented everyone in the right light. The people we interviewed were so open and honest with us—about both the good and the bad parts of their stories—and we just wanted to do them justice.

A good day of Q&A

Had a Q&A lunch with 5 folks from Republic of Barbecue, and just did a Q&A with Kerry Bexley, of Snow's BBQ. Will post both soon.